It’s International Women’s Day today! As a global day celebrating the social, economic, cultural and political achievements of women, it’s the perfect opportunity to reflect on the strides made towards gender equality, while recognising the work that is still needed to create a more inclusive world.
To celebrate, we’ve spotlighted four female members of our senior leadership and management team (who work in roles that are typically male dominated,) to highlight their achievements and journey to working their way to the top.
We discuss everything from how leadership has changed over the years, to who inspires them, and what changes still need to be made in the workplace.
Enjoy!
My name is Pip. I'm the Managing Director of thortful.
My name’s Alisa and I’m the Finance Director at thortful.
I'm Sarah, and I'm the Marketing Director at thortful.
I'm Katherine, and I'm the Head of Product at thortful.
What was the moment that defined your career to this point?
Pip:
I think the moment I’m most proud of is when I was seconded to Australia for a couple of years. It was a really big out of my comfort zone moment abandoning friends and family, being so far away on my own in my late 20s. It was really humbling when I got there, as a marketeer, to learn about a new market, and to discover that what I knew about the UK market didn’t translate out there. I worked for a phenomenal marketing director called Lisa Sharp-Mitchell, who gave me a mantra of grace, purpose and ease, which is something I’ve always tried to stick with. It was certainly a proud moment, with masses of learning, and it gave me an ability to cope with change, which I’ve tried to use throughout the rest of my career.
Sarah:
I don’t think there was one moment, really. I started my career in the events industry in my twenties, and for me that was the absolute perfect job. I was able to earn a living combining my passions: people, partying and traveling. And for me, I just thought, I’ve won the golden ticket here. But that’s a young person’s thing, really. So when I got into my late 20s, I decided it’s time for a career change, and moved into brand marketing, which became my passion from there.
Katherine:
I worked in the same sector for about 13 years, and I loved it, but I was ready for the opportunity to work with different people and learn different things. So I made the decision to move out of that sector but stay in similar job roles, and it was harder than I expected. I found it quite difficult for the skills and experience I’d built to be seen as relevant in other industries, and so it took quite a long time to make that transition. I learned to make sure you get feedback on applications, or if you get to an interview, understanding what has resonated, and what hasn’t. Thinking about different ways to present your skills and your CV, and then just keeping at it. It took longer than if I’d been moving jobs within the same sector, but eventually you do kind of crack through. And then once you’ve made that break, it’s so much easier. So just keep at it. If it’s something that you feel is the right decision, just keep going with it.
What advice would you give to your younger self?
"Just go for it; you will never be 100% ready."
Pip:
Just go for it; you will never be 100% ready. I see this in women in particular: they wait to be fully qualified and 100% ready. Whereas men take the leap of faith a bit quicker. I would always advise to say yes, then figure out how to be brave and how to challenge yourself to do it.
Alisa:
I would say, “don’t worry so much about other people’s perception of you.” I think I spent a lot of time thinking I needed to be the same as everyone else, and not seeing being different as a good thing. So if I could go back, that piece of advice would be, go with your gut and see your differences as a gift.
Sarah:
That you’re good enough. Growing up in quite an entrepreneurial family, there’s quite a lot of pressure on showing up and being good at what you do. So knowing that you might be different, not having followed the usual route to university, and not knowing what you want to do, is okay. It’s alright to be really comfortable with that, and be whatever you want to be if you put your mind to it.
Katherine:
Don’t stay in jobs that make you miserable. There’s been a few jobs that I’ve known aren’t right for me, and I think when you’re working in a culture that doesn’t feel like the right fit, and there’s nothing in your control that you can change about that, then sticking it out and staying somewhere that makes you unhappy, will make you miserable. You shouldn’t be doing it to prove a point. It doesn’t mean that you’re resilient; it’s a waste of time and energy to stay somewhere you’re really unhappy. So move on. There’s always a better opportunity out there.
What advice would you give to young women aspiring to be in leadership positions?
Sarah:
Something that I lacked was self belief. So surrounding yourself with mentors and people who can support and guide you is really important. It helps to build confidence.
Katherine:
I think leadership is a really broad term. Having leadership qualities, acting as a leader within a business, and having a leadership position are all different things. It’s important for people to think about what it is that they want in their own aspirations, and not feel that they have to be a manager of a really large team, for example, in order to be a leader within a business. So think about what you want, what are goals that you’ll enjoy and work well with your skill set, and then go after them.
Tell me about a female role model that influenced your career path?
"You can be a human first and a business leader second."
Pip:
I’d say my dad – whilst clearly not a woman – he has been such a coach, ally and an advocate for me, so I’ve been really lucky in having access to him. He had senior leadership roles all his life, and he impressed upon me some key mantras: confidence in the moment; being empathetic but a business realist; and again, just taking some brave steps and putting yourself first. So whilst not a lady, he’s certainly a great advocate that I’m very grateful for.
Alisa:
So rather than a single female role model, the biggest influence has been the women in my family. They shaped my perspectives in invaluable ways: teaching me to follow my own path; focusing on what truly matters to me; not getting caught up in comparison. Beyond that, they show me the power of resilience, trust in my instincts, hard work, and being true to who I am.
Sarah:
It’s less about influencing my career path, and more about morals and having a really strong work ethic. And I’d say that comes from my family. Both mum and dad have their own businesses. And you need to be really conscientious, hard working, and reliable. They taught me to show up and do the best that you can in any situation.
Katherine:
I’ve been really lucky to work with lots of fantastic leaders of all genders, and some really fantastic female managers. They have all demonstrated a real sense of empathy with their leadership, and shown that you can be a human first and a business leader second; that you can be emotionally vulnerable, bring humour, and other sides of yourself into the role. It gives a raw sense of authenticity, and allows people to connect with you and build that respect and rapport in a way that is really valuable.
If you had to call out one thing about the best part of your role at thortful, what would it be?
"The legacy I want to leave for thortful: do myself out of a job, because I've raised people up to take that next step."
Pip:
Seeing the teams grow. I joined thortful four years ago, and in the last year it’s migrated from start-up to scale-up. We’ve recognised that our wonderful management team are incredibly capable, highly functional experts. I’ve really enjoyed working with them on limiting their own interference – getting out of their heads so they can maximise their own potential. It’s been great to see them come together, and ultimately, that’s the legacy I want to leave for thortful: do myself out of a job, because I’ve raised people up to take that next step.
Alisa:
The best part is just how varied it is. Working for a dynamic and really creative business, no two days are the same. I love that I can be really hands on while also being in a leadership role. And it really helps to work with a team of amazing people who love what they do, why we’re here, what we stand for and what we’re trying to achieve.
Katherine:
It’s the people that work here. They’re passionate. They have so much energy. I learn a lot from the people that work here at all levels of the business, and I love working somewhere where I can really get to know everyone. It’s one of the things I love about working in a smaller business; you really get to understand people’s strengths, their interests and who they are as a person, alongside the work that they produce. I think that’s what brings the energy to my role.
How can women uplift and empower each other in the workplace?
" If you're in a room where other women should be, invite them in, too."
Pip:
Calling out great work publicly. Often, women don’t get the right amount of credit, or their work goes unnoticed. If you’re in a room where other women should be, invite them in, too. And push back on bias in the moment. If another woman is being discriminated against, or being treated in a way that’s not reflective of your values, make sure you call that out and do something about it.
Alisa:
I think one way women in leadership can really help empower and lift each other up is mentorship – not only in the formal sense. Mentorship programs are great for things like sharing experience and helping your goals progress faster. But leadership can sometimes be a bit isolating – it’s important to have that informal network of women to lean on, whether it’s mentors, peers or just simply sounding boards. For me, it’s about lifting each other up on our way to navigate that part.
Sarah:
Again, it comes down to mentoring. It’s really, really important to help others to develop their skills, especially younger women. It’s quite common for women to be less forthcoming in terms of standing up and shouting about their achievements. So we really need to encourage women to do that, but also do it for them.
How can organisations better support women in achieving leadership roles?
Pip:
This one boils down to redefining what leadership is. Certainly, from when I started in my career, women would often feel the need to mimic male leaders in order to “play the game.” Now, I’m really encouraged to see businesses redefine the scope of leadership; emotional intelligence and empathy for all genders is far more acute and respected. And for women who have those qualities as a natural strength, to see that come through is great.
Alisa:
First and foremost, gender diversity has to be a strategic priority at the top levels of companies. Leaders need to model the right behaviours, and be seen to advocate for women in leadership roles.
Sarah:
Firstly, making sure that women are firstly given equal opportunities, making sure that they feel valued, heard, and respected. Secondly, there’s also the piece around really normalising flexible working. I think there are so many women – particularly mums – that want to also have work-life balance of being professional whilst also being the main caregivers for children. There have been some really good strides in that area, but now we need to continue on that journey so that women have those equal opportunities in the workplace.
What’s one small change workplaces could make to be more inclusive for women?
Pip:
Normalising flexibility in the workplace for everyone. Thinking of flexibility as reduced hours and part-time working as a “woman’s need” subtly undermines women. And why shouldn’t men have the same access to that flexibility? Often, they play just as much of a key role in caring for family members. So let’s make flexibility more normal, and more human, to benefit us all.
Sarah:
Recognising that women who are mums are able to work as hard and and should have the opportunity to be as successful as men.
Katherine:
I think lots of workplaces are really moving in the right direction, but I would really love to see more progress made on parental leave and the subsequent return to work. It’s not one change, it’s everything; from supporting women who breastfeed at work, to flexible working policies, to leadership pathways for parents. It’s a really significant life change, and the more aware and flexible workplaces can be, the more likely they’ll retain some brilliant people, and give them the best opportunity to bring their best self to work during a huge period of change.
What's one thing you wish more women knew about climbing the career ladder?
"Women should trust themselves more. Instincts are incredibly powerful things. "
Pip:
There’s a couple of things. First of all, women should trust themselves more. Instincts are incredibly powerful things. “If your gut says there’s doubt, there’s no doubt,” as our friends at Precision Proco (our printers) would say! If a role seems off, if a manager seems off, then you’re probably not in the right place. And do something about that. And as I mentioned earlier, I think it’s really important that women shrug off this need to feel “ready” and just go for things. Say yes, then figure out how to absorb that challenge and take that step up.
Sarah:
I always thought I needed to know the answers and have all the knowledge. And actually, it’s okay to say, “I don’t know.” It’s okay to also show that vulnerability. It’s also about how you build connections with people. Being able to succeed in business is about building relationships with the people you work with, both in your business and your industry.
Katherine:
It’s a classic phrase: it’s a marathon, not a sprint. Really think about the roles you enjoy, that give you different skills and that allow you to work with different people. Not seeing career progression as just a set of promotions. Allowing yourself to step sideways or step out of something that you might have been doing – that can be the most rewarding and satisfying opportunity. You’ve got a potentially 40-50 year career ahead of you; you’ve got time to do that. Don’t feel boxed in, and don’t feel like you have to climb the ladder as quickly as possible – give yourself the time to enjoy it.
How would you say the perception of women in leadership has changed since you started your career?
Pip:
When I first started out, most female leaders were trying to emulate men, and that didn’t sit well with them. It just wasn’t who they were. Now that emotional intelligence and empathy have come to form the desired leadership style, I can certainly see that playing out as a strength for female leaders.
Katherine:
This is a really interesting question, and one I recently asked a few friends who’ve been working for the same amount of time as me. One thing we all said was that the perception of what it is to be a leader has changed. There’s more value and acceptance given to a broader set of skills now than before. If we’re going back 20 or 30 years, diversity in leadership has really helped with that. People no longer have one fixed idea of what a leader looks like, and understand that different people will bring different things to that role.
And finally, what is one card that you would send to empower and uplift another woman?
Pip:
It would be Courtney Andrews’ “Be Brave.” It perfectly summarises the point of “go forth with confidence.” No matter how small you might be feeling inside, you’ve got it.
Alisa:
It would be this card from Abbie Imagine. I was chuffed to bits to receive it a few years ago and was really proud of myself.
Sarah:
Going back to what I was saying before about self belief, and believing that you deserve to be there. For me, it’s about she believed she could, and she bloody smashed it.
Katherine:
I really like sending cards to friends or family members unexpectedly. When you get a card that you aren’t expecting, sometimes it means a lot more than when you are expecting one. My chosen card is pretty simple, but feels very natural to the sort of thing I’d say. It’s really nice to just send it in an unexpected way to friends that might be going through a tough time, or deserve a bit of recognition for something they’ve done. I’d probably send it with a Tony’s Chocolonely bar as well to give them a little pick-me-up!
Today is the perfect opportunity to highlight these exceptional stories – but of course we always keep equality running through thortful’s veins throughout the rest of the year, too!
Happy International Women’s Day from all of us at thortful.
